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Jeremy Carl on China and “clean coal”

By Erica Schlaikjer ⋅ November 6, 2007 ⋅ Post a comment

Wired magazine interviews Stanford University’s Jeremy Carl, a research fellow in the Program on Energy and Sustainable Development.

Here’s what he has to say about China’s role in the coal industry:

All We Are Saying Is, Give (Clean) Coal a Chance
By Alexis Madrigal
November 6, 2007

Wired News: Can you give us an idea of the scale of coal power? Can you put coal in context as an energy source?

Jeremy Carl: Only oil makes a bigger contribution to global energy. In terms of energy in the industrial world, it’s about 40 percent of electricity production.

WN: How dirty is coal?

Carl: Coal is as dirty as it gets. Coal has every element in the periodic table. And depending where in the world you get it from, “coal” can mean 100 different substances. If you sent the sort of coal you might use in a typical Indian plant to a supermodern boiler in Japan, it would shut the place down.

WN: We hear a lot about China’s coal industry. Can you compare it with the U.S. industry, which ranks second in the world?

Carl: We mine about (1.1 billion tons) of coal per year. China was at about 1.4 billion tons seven years ago. Now they are at 2.4 billion tons. So, they essentially took the second-biggest coal industry in the whole world and replicated it in seven years. And if you look at the Chinese plans, they plan to ramp it up even more in the future.

WN: Given the obvious environmental impacts of these plants, why don’t we have better answers for these problems than the Kyoto Protocol (which the United States didn’t sign, and which exempted China and India from emissions restrictions)?

Carl: I’ll give you a speculative, personal answer. It has to do with the politics of the type of people who were negotiating Kyoto. And the pressure put on by environmental groups that were uncomfortable with coal. There was just so much pressure on the symbolic importance of getting a deal done.

WN: What would you have rather seen?

Carl: I think there has been some really good criticism that says, “Was the U.N. really a good forum for this? Or would it have been better to have taken the 10 countries who consume 60 percent of global energy and do something with real teeth in it?” I think that would have been a much better approach.

I would have happily traded every emissions gain from Kyoto for eight clean coal plants sequestering carbon in different countries. Because then we could have a real discussion that says, “This works. Now let’s see who has to bear the cost.”

WN: Why would that be such a big deal?

Carl: Because right now we’re having a conversation with China and India where we’re trying to get China and India to build clean coal plants by saying, “Here’s this thing that’s never been tried before at a mass scale. You should build one.” And that’s not going to work.